In some ways, these interviews teach Barack that Black and white people’s desire to better one’s family are much the same. People save money, are able to move to better neighborhoods or cities, and then become more prosperous. But this simple story of self-improvement also doesn’t fully speak to what Black people face as they grow wealthier and move to new neighborhoods. Instead, given Chicago’s racist, segregated history, this moving creates “upheaval,” not just better neighborhoods for everyone—and Barack implies that these people’s progress is tenuous at best.